Sep 26 2009
Blog 3: Some have argued that graphic novels have no place in higher learning, that the university is a place strictly for a classical, more sophisticated curriculum. Do you agree? Why or why not.
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73 Responses to “Blog 3: Some have argued that graphic novels have no place in higher learning, that the university is a place strictly for a classical, more sophisticated curriculum. Do you agree? Why or why not.”
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this one is kind of hard to understand so i’ll just say what i think it is trying to say. i think it is meaning that higher schooling has no place for novels that give a really in depth detail of things. i think that it is saying that schooling should have novels that work your brain instead of help it imagine things.
i disagree with this. i think that to get your mind working it has to have a reason to make itself want to go on in a book. it is usually pretty hard to do something good if your mind isn’t fully into it. it would be like reading a boring article in a news paper, about one paragraph in, your mind is working your eyes to find something more pleasing to it. something that suits your mind. instead of just text on a page.
in my experience, (only thus far being high school) it has been the out of norm novels and discussions that have impacted my life. in high school, i had a very out of the ordinary english teacher for my honors class. she was good and effective yet we never read what the other classes were reading. she focused on the content of what we were reading, not the class in context. it not only created diversity among the school because of the difference in context, but it created a more culturally diverse learning environment because we were learning separate things than everyone else.
if we were to keep to the traditional texts, how would our knowledge expand or grow as a culture!? we are the future. we are tomorrow. we need to be well versed in all aspects. not just the refined blind version of what we read.
well, i agree with the two blogs so far. specially kyle. In my experience just this far in reading maus, ITS REAL its history. its a mix between worlds. tradition is bull because if we do not intergrate all styles then what respect will we have for truth when it is displayed in one way. if we cant see all the light and dark then we leave behind Truth. truth is more important than anything. Napkins are great and when a scientist presents his idea he wrote on a napkin, does this mean that because it wasn’t double spaced mla format that it is wrong. HECK NO. People can be uptight and still be right too. So Reality is not black or white, give me everything.
I agree with Kylinye in the sense that graphic novels are not the norm in higher education, but if the graphic novel depicts issues and ideas that require the reader the think on a higher level about the issue at hand, the book is appropriate. I also agree with mowntainmancodey when he says that all forms of literature should be included in an english class. This brings ideas from many different people and different backgrounds.
It’s not really the regular run of the mill thing to read in college, but I think it’s a good way to include different types of writing into this class. It makes you think about things differently, and it’s just interesting. Also, so far it’s really good and I like it a lot. I’m glad it was assigned to us. I have never read a graphic novel before, and I didn’t think I would in college. Today in class we talked about how it’s good to be able to have it illustrated for us, with words as well. It helps you picture it better, and I agree with that.
I agree with all the blogs so far. Yes, we need the classic novels, and we need the graphic novels as well. Without both we wouldn’t get to see the different styles. Reading graphic and classic in college allows us to “expand our intelligence,” as my UNIV 1000 teacher Jill Wilks would say. Knowing both ways of writing will open our minds to new things, and be able to distinguish between the two. I also liked what blog leader 5 said about how illustrations help you picture what’s going on in the story better. In Maus, the pictures help me distinguish all the Poles, Nazis, and Jews from one another, since Spiegelman drew the Nazis as cats, Poles as pigs, Jews as mice, and so on.
I really enjoyed how the book is set up. Its nice to have a little change up from the ordinary text books. For me it really helps paint the picture of how it is meant to be understood. In some cases for me the graphic novel is way better to understand and it usually keeps my attention better.
So far, I have enjoyed the graphic novel Maus. The pictures really do add so much to the story, but at the same time I believe that a novel would also have its upside. As far as not allowing graphic novels in the curriculum, I disagree. Some stories are not graphic novel material, but Maus is. I believe that graphic novels are great.
I totally agree with what “some” people have said. You could write Maus in the normal novel form and get the same effect. I believe that when one uses their imagination to create the scene of what they are reading, they become involved in that book in a way that you can not achieve through a graphic novel. Through a graphic novel none of your imagination is used. It lays out exactly what they are saying, along with a picture of how they are saying it and what they are doing leaving no variation for the individual mind to insert. Graphic novels have a place, but it is not in the schools.
I completely agree with blog leader 7. He mentions the entertainment of reading graphic novels in college. I believe it is a good way for students to learn because it creates a sense of understanding unlike the sense we have adapted to with classic novels. Classic novels give an exciting way of learning and give the reader a more in depth knowledge of the particular topic being discussed. I believe graphic novels should be part of the curriculum because they provide a more descriptive understanding with more excitement in reading.
I like what mowntainmancodey said about the scientists idea on a napkin; if it’s not double spaced, 12 font, strictly MLA format is the idea any less valid; the symbolism? With the novel, Maus, we’re asked to use a different part of our brain, make new meaning out of the presented pictures, notice more, and most importantly analyze and grasp the new twist on this significant event in history. Of course students should read classic novels like Catcher in the Rye and To Kill a Mockingbird, the messages are clear and still important.However, look at all of the thought-provoking modern art, experimental films, and even the internet! How would those things have come to be without people broadening their horizons and going out on a limb? Think about it.
I agree with what kylinye said about reading out of the blind versions. looking into something new like a novel comic book it does give learning a whole new meaning. For some it may be fun and others it may be borring but hey, thats there falt for looking at it that way if you look at something as, “oh great I don’t want to learn this way how are you going to learn anything new in life learning takes many different kinds of ways and frankly I would like to see more ways simular to this.
I dont think it is appropriate to have comic books at a college level. Though I do agree some people have different learning styles and a comic book could be a way for someone to understand a book more easily. To me I am not a freshman in college so I feel it is more childish and more for a junior high level. As an adult I think we should have the imaginary skills to try to picture what is going on ourselves rather than someone else doing that for us.
I definitely think it has a place in higher learning, the entire point of our first couple years of college is to broaden our horizens in the types of classes we take to determine what exactly we want to do, why shouldn’t that be the case in the class room? Every one has a different learning style and without a diverse way of learning we may not learn our own style. Just because its not a college level book doesn’t necessarily mean that there isn’t college level material to be brought to the surface. For me at least, this style helps me to see the symbolism the author is trying to portray, I know that I never would be able to pick up on some of the details without the visuals to help.
Graphic novels should definately belong in college. Like cmelling said, the entire point of our first couple years of college is to broaden our horizens. Aren’t some of the main purposes of reading in an english class to expand our vocabulary and learn about something? Well, guess what? In graphic novels we can still expand our vocabulary and learn new things! And why is it that educators are always trying to take something simple and make it complicated? Graphic novels can help the reader and thats that. It shouldn’t be a problem.
I think that graphic novels require a higher knowledge to understand all the symbolism and what the author is actually trying to say. It’s not like the pictures are only there for entertainment purposes, they are the story! You could almost read the story without words and just the pictures. I think they should be in higher education and lower education levels!
I bleive that we should be able to read anything that will help us learn. Even if it is graphic novels. Its good to have a change for a chance. Instead of reading the old set up of how books usually are, i like being able to see the graphics, they help it feel more real to me. I feel like i can understand it better by seeing what they are doing.
I agree with what mountainmancodey said when he wrote, “if we do not integrate all styles, then what respect will we have for truth when it is displayed in one way.”
I believe that graphic novels do have a place in higher learning, and the style is a wonderful way to express a new age of writing. Plus, what college student isn’t going to enjoy reading a comic book for one of his English assignments? By saying that University is a place for a classical, more sophisticated learning, we are implying that the the modern styles of writing are null and unsophisticated.
Its like music. You can like one certain style of music, but ten years later, that music is outdated and not engaging listeners in discovering new songs to relate to.
As a species we are constantly evolving into a more mind-based era of humankind. To throw out the new ideas and hold onto the old ones, we are hindering our natural evolution by not incorporating new ways of engaging our brains.
I believe it is content and not type of a novel that dictates weather it is college level literature. Maus for example is about a very real, emotional, story of a mans life. Part of the reason it is so brilliant is because of how it is written to not only tell a story but dipict it through out the novel. The story would lose its identity with out it being written as so.
I disagree with this i believe that its fine that we read graphic novels. We should read them. If the novel is at college level we can read it no matter if its new or old.
I agree with cmelling that the comic should be able to be read at a college level. I think that any book at makes you think at a college level should be allowed. As i read maus i found a lot of good meanings and it really made me think at a high level. I really enjoyed the comic and the way if was set up.
I agree with Nakken and cmelling about comics and how they should be read for college reading. College is about learning and having new experiences and reading a graphic novel falls into that. The graphic novels teach you a lot about the subject matter and helps you to understand better. Graphic novels are interesting and I want to read them which allows me to retain more information because it is different and memorable compared to classical reading. It is a new take in a new era of learning and society.
I agree with Kylinye that we need to expand from the traditional texts but I say we still need the traditional texts as well. Maus is a good way of showing the Holocaust with more power in certain aspects. Graphic novels could not do this for all things and if they do they must be written with great care. Traditional texts can be used for more subjects and most people understand them well. Graphic novels can confuse some people. I think we need to study both non-traditional and traditional texts is to show more detail with non-traditional in some settings but to have traditional texts to show the general views to more people better.
I also agree with Kylinye that we need to expand from traditional texts. Maus is such an interesting book that actually gives you a lot of insight of what Vladek saw. I find it extremely helpful when Vladek talks about the hiding spots they hid and they have actual drawings so that you can have a visual aid to as what he was talking about. I also believe that the book was tastefully done, it is not in color and I feel that that helps with the drawings not being taken over board with blood and gore. The drawings do add a lot of humor as well. In all I have no complaints.
I think that graphic novels should be used at the university level because they add much more than what you can just read, you can see as you read. The pictures help add details and a better understanding than you could get just from words. They can give you a better idea of the setting and context of what is going on.
I agree with mckayswainston, i think that the graphic novels are a great learning technique. They help us learn in a different more fun way then just a plain novel. Colleges should use it more, to get more students interested in what it is talking about.
I agree with what oliverpeart said. Graphic novels are great because they keep your attention on the book. Graphic novels can give you a better picture of what’s going on and you can imagine it out to get a more understanding of it. Normal novels are boring, there just huge walls of text and people tend to lose their attention on it. Like the saying goes “A picture is worth a thousand words.”
Graphic novels should definately be a part of college curriculum. Most students that I know of like to have fun. Graphic novels are fun and interesting; they keep the readers attention. Classics are good to read, but sometimes things just need to mixed up a little bit. People tend to pay more attention and get more out of graphic novels, therefore they are easier to understand and have disscusions on in class.
I agree with danicarter. Graphic novels are good resources to help keep students focused. I believe that higher education should expand one’s mind and help students increase their learning capabilities. College classes should give students experience in areas that they are not familiar with and graphic novels are a great way to do this.
I do not agree with this. Everything in this world has something to teach us so it should not matter what medium it is in. Universities have traditionally used classics in their curriculums but with so many new ideas in our society how can we not include all kinds of novels. Plus, by learning about so many of those new ideas we can better understand our society and culture, then allowing us to contribute.
Everybody learns different ways. A lot of times teachers stick with the same methods of teaching because they feel like those are the ones that work for most students. What about the students that don’t learn like everybody else though?? Should not there be a middle where sometimes the type A learners like the teaching method and sometimes the type B learners like the teaching method. I know that teachers can not accomidate everybody all the time but i do think that they can try different teaching methods to try to help as many students as possible. I agree that graphic novels are a good tool for learning and teaching.
I am going to agree with kylinyeon on the fact that reading out of the norm books brings diversity to our learning. I don’t feel that graphic novels are a hindrance to our learning, or too elementary for our level, I merely feel that it is a different way of learning. I’m not saying that every book we read should be a graphic novel, but I do find it acceptable to read enough of them to be exposed to the different writing style than we are used to. Reading Maus has been an entirely different experience than anything I am used to or even expected. Because it is written in the form of a comic, I do feel like my horizons have been broadened and I’ve become more accepting of different types of literature.
Graphic novels challenge students in a different way. In Maus we discussed the symbolisms in Speigelman’s drawing. It opened students’ minds as to why he selected certain animals for different countries. It also had us looking for symbolisms in the drawings and how they are connected to the storyline. I feel novels themselves are an art form and graphic novels are another expression of the art. Most importantly it has us discussing and engaging of the benefits and drawbacks of graphic novels.
At first I thought it was a little odd to be reading a comic book in a college class, but after I started reading Maus I really liked it and realized that if the novel has a good meaning and story to it then it shouldn’t matter how it is written. Graphic novels are a good way to be able to actually see what is going on in a way that can’t be done if there were no pictures.
I believe graphic novels give higher learning a chance to have some character. I believe graphic novels are great because like Maus, it takes a serious subject and turns it into a more in depth feel from pictures and a person’s perspective, thus making me feel like I am there experiencing it with the authors father. If we only had the sophisticated curriculum we would only see one side, where as graphic novels expand learning. Therefore I’d say I agree that graphic novels should be a part of higher learning curriculumn.
No I do not agree. I believe that graphic novels interest students more then “classical” novels. They learn better because the graphic novels intrigue them more than a boring book. And as j0garcia said before me they challenge students more, which i agree on. Also, like j0garcia said, they are full of symbolism which makes the student curious and ponder the book more.
I agree with alythorneon It’s not really the regular type of book you’d read in college, but I think it’s a good way to include different types of writing into college. It makes me see a different view of the world. Instead of everything ending in happily ever after, this is real life!
at first, i didnt like Maus because i did think it was immature. but the more I read it, i started to see how it is a great medium for a subject like the holocaust. It allows the reader to visually go through the story with the reader. There may be some restriction on the detail in the writing but it more than makes up for it by the depictions of each situation. there are things that a comic can portray that a regular novel never could.
i disagree with voltron and others, i dont think that Maus could be written in a regular novel form and still be successful. the imagery of the book would be impossible and the implied visual part of the book would be completely lost. that element alone, i feel is what makes it a respected book
I don’t think graphic novels are inappropriate. The pictures in Maus for instance give meaning to the story and visualization that just couldn’t be given if written in a regular novel form. Just because we are in a higher level doesn’t mean that graphic novels are inapropriate, I personally learn more from graphic novels and feel like they are a good change in the curriculum.
I would have to agree with danicater. Grapic novels should be in higher education. I know for a fact, more than halp of the students at college would rather read something that has picures on it than just reading line from line. Grapic novels tend to pull emotion out of you than a normal novel would. With grapic novels, it’s right there, the pictures speak for itself
I agree with the responses written so far. I think that schools need a variety of texts to achieve the full experience of learning. If we just had classical books and textbooks we would only get the classical feel of society. Same with the graphic novels. But if we use both in appropriate amounts, we experience the greatest amount of knowledge and therefore learn. I think it also helps to have both because if one person learns better with classical means, then use classical books. If another person learns better with graphic novels, then use graphic novels. If those two students are in the same class, then use both. You may learn more one way or the other, but everyone still learns.
I am a very visual reader and i learn better that way also. So i agree with what everyone one else has said, I don’t think it should matter whether it’s a graphic novel or not but the content in it that should make it or break it, when it comes to being college appropriate. We all learn differently and i think this is a good way to test different learning styles.
I agree with all of the blogs that say a graphic novel is appropriate for university learning. I am also a very visual reader, which makes it better to have graphics to go along with the plot. All of the content is the same, but having graphics just makes it easier to understand and more enjoyable.
Personally, I don’t see the harm in using graphic novels in higher education. True, it’s in a different and more artistic format than a pure novel is, but for some people the art and images get the point that the author is conveying so much more clearly that way than with the words that they sometimes use. As long as the format is used appropriately, I don’t see the problem.
I agree with what most everyone has written to an extent. I think graphic novels are appropriate in higher education depending on the context and the class focus. If I was in a class that focused on essay writing of course Maus would be completely wrong for it, but in a basic english class it is important. Graphic novels are still a part of english are they not? And Maus is very well written and full of information. If the teacher has the students really read into a graphic novel and squeeze it untill it is dry than it is just as effective as any other book. College is about broadening our horizons and I believe that graphic novel’s really will do that. So, yes, I find them appropriate.
I think that as a college student you should definately be required to read some graphic novels. At some point you have to be exposed to the outside world and face the realities of what actually happens out there. The days of being in high school and having everything censored and depicted as being perfect are over, in college students need to be exposed to adult things in order for them to become adults.
I agree with blog leader number 4. Graphic novels are not usually used to learn. But if the material makes students think on a higher level then, what’s to lose? It’s possible to learn new ideas and understand it more fully when it’s in a different form. Seeing it in a different perspective, like a Graphic Novel, shouldn’t be a disadvantage, it should only help us to learn even more about the subject.
I disagree that we have to have more of a classical curriculum. I believe that graphic novels help the reader understand, and see more then a ungraphic one. I do understand why they would want them to be more classical, because your at a university, but it doesn’t have to be unsophisticated if you read graphic novels.
I pretty much agree with what everyone has said so far. I think we need both classic novels and graphic novels in our curriculum. It helps us to see all parts of writing and writing styles. In my opinion, graphic novels gives us a viewpoint that can’t be seen in classical writing. In Classical writing, you get to interpret what the writer is feeling on your own while in graphic novels, you are more likely to see what the writer is feeling due to how the pictures are drawn. I think graphic novels are just as important in college as any other book.
I agree with what most people said except something about imagining more without the images. I think with the images there for us it is a lot easier to feel like we’re actually there or connect it to ourselves personally. If the graphics are already there for us to look at we can focus more on the reading and connect it to the graphic and vice versa. I understand people have different methods of learning, but come on, who doesn’t enjoy a good comic every now and then.
It should not matter if the material is a graphic novel or not. What does matter is the content. If the content is serving an educational purpose, it shouldn’t matter whether it is in picture form or words. For a lot of people, graphic novels are easier to relate to. It is a lot easier to focus on the meaning of the book, instead of the words that are being written down. A book shouldn’t be considered unsophisticated just because it has pictures.
Well, if you think about it, comic books are somewhat childish. We are supposed to be grown adults with vivid imaginations. According to outsiders we should be able to create all the imagery in our minds. Comics (graphic novels) are meant to target a younger audience. For example, have you ever caught your grandpa reading a graphic novel? My guess is no. He probably chuckles to himself as he reads the funnies in the Sunday paper, but that’s as far as it goes. Comics are a less serious genre. You can try to break the rules and make it what you like, but take out the words and you’ll still laugh at the pictures in Maus. Well, you might be quite confused. Also while reading, the dialog isn’t incredibly deep. The ideas are put forth in single sentences. A normal novel can go deep into what the character is thinking or feeling. Instead of pictures, writers use great descriptions that cause use to connect and feel rather than see.
But hey, I’m just bullshitting you guys. I thought it was a great read. I just had to take the side of the underdog.
Before we started reading Maus, I was wondering why we were going to read a comic book in college, but after finishing it, I understand why that book was chosen. Not only was it educational, but it was a different style of reading that didn’t get boring. I’m not the biggest reader, so when I was handed Maus I actaully wanted to keep reading. Regardless of the way the material is presented, if what is being written is educational, it is a reasonable style of writing. The pictures actually helped my understanding of the reading.
I think that graphic novels absolutely belong in higher learning. The fact that some argue that universities are places “strictly for a classical, more sophisticated curriculum” is an insult to the graphic novel format. Graphic novels can be deeply gripping and powerful literature, as well as sophisticated. It is not a juvenile format, and certainly belongs in higher learning situations. I’m really glad we read Maus for class. I love graphic novels, and this one was done incredibly well. And it proves that graphic novels can be considered a serious form of literature.
I hadn’t opened Maus until we got our first reading assignment so I was very suprised by the fact that it was a graphic novel. At first I was spectical but after realizing that graphic novels are a part of 20th century writing, I felt differently. I don’t have a problem with reading a graphic novel in a college english class, I feel that this class is to enrich its students in all different types of writing and literature, and that means graphic novels. It is important that we read more classic pieces and historical literature but it is equally important that we are being emerressed in literature of the 20th century.
Graphic novels have just as much effect on our education as a novel with no graphics. As it is said “pictures are worth a thousand words”. Wouldn’t that mean that books with pictures as well as words teach us more than books with just words?
I agree with alythorne. I think it is a good way to show this story. If it were just a normal book I would have looked at it and just complained no matter how good it was. But in graphic novel form I was inthralled, I just couldn’t stop reading. I think in college we should have more of these kindof things to read it would make me actually want to do it.
In my opinion graphic novels can be good and bad. on the good side you have pictures to depict characters, not so much specific characters but bigger picture characters like the cat and mouse thing. And when you see a picture of someone being beaten or a pile of dead jews it really drives the point home. You can also get a better idea of what his hiding places were like. On the bad side there is definitly a lack of detail in the text. It seemed to me that there was a lot of important information left out because of the lack of detail and depth. I do think graphic novels should be a part of higher learning, like some of the blog leaders said it is a different way to see a story and we shouldn’t be confined to a certain type of writing.
Not all students in a university like to read the graphic details of stories. For example, if you were in college and you were reading a novel, and it was talking about “blood and guts being blown out of somebody’s brain.” Not everybody wants to read the graphic details. I think the universities should have a classical, more sophisticated, curriculum for all the students.
I think that so long as something is helping us to learn or stimulating our brains, it has a place in any kind of learning environment. There is a lot to learn in Maus and it is taught in a different way then we are used to, so it gives us a whole new perspective and way of looking at things. I also think there is a lot to be learned from the visual symbolism that the comic gives us. We do not get that kind of thing from classics. Even though I agree that it does lack in the more detailed parts of the story, I think that the amount of information we are given visually acts as a balance.
I disagree. I think that graphic novels bring something to the table that traditional novels can’t. In Maus for example some of the pictures help you understand what the author is saying or meaning. For things like Maus it would be hard for me to picture reading it any other way because the graphic part of it just gives it a whole new level of understanding and depth that traditional novels don’t.
I think that graphic novels are great for learning because it gets peoples minds moving on how and why things happen in the book. Also not all colleges are strictly for classical learning if you think about if colleges aren’t how they are then we wouldn’t have artist or anything because they would have just learned about math and everything else classical. That’s why i don’t agree
I disagree that graphic novels don’t have a place in higher learning because one of the jobs of the university is to make the student as diverse as possible and teaching in one style is not diverse. I feel that the comic immerses the reader more than most novels do.
I agree with Lisa Cash, and most of the other bloggers on this one. I don’t think that Universities should teach only classical or “sophisticated” curriculum. The fact of the matter is, the majority of the world doesn’t know much about, or talk about the classics. They get a lot of the same ideas from graphic novels. I’m not saying that the classics don’t have their place, but graphic novels have their place as well. I believe that good ideas or principles continue to have relevance throughout the course of time, but that doesn’t mean that new ideas should be ignored.
I think there is a real difference between comic books and graphic novels. If graphic novels could be rewritten as a novel or good nonfiction book they should be allowed. I think as long as the theme or story is acceptible (a super man comic isnt acceptible) it should be allowed. Like in Mous it has a moral and we are learning a lot about the holicost.
I agree with Aly because i think it does give us a different prospective in reading and helps us understand the book in a different way.
I agree with tysonnelson, disagreeing on schools needing to have novels that work the brain.
Working the brain is a good practice, but reading a graphic novel compared to a novel with no illustration doesn’t have a right or wrong, better or worse, only if the reader prefers to see an illustration involved in the reading. I feel reading a descriptive novel compared to a graphic novel requires a different level of vocabulary, but what is important is whether or not someone can understand the story. If two people can read a story one illustrated, one non-illustrated and both understand it, then neither style is better than the other.
i disagree with this. i am not much of a reader myself but when it comes to graphic novel i am up for it because it helps you understand things easier – i think. Like who the poles are (pigs) who the jews are (mouse or “Maus” ) and so on.Graphic Novels like Maus are a great source of knowledge.
I think the change, from reading classical novels to graphic novel is good. A little change is always good
and why not use graphic novels? whats wrong with that? i would understand if it was a comic book or something but why not graphic novel?
I think graphic novels such as Maus are alright. It contains plenty of information, it is just illustrated. The story is the same whether in the form of a comic book or normal chapter book. Graphic novels could be a creative way to create a variety into our learning.
I think that graphic novels help with learning, the cause us to use our imagination, and when we use our imagination it makes our brain work just a little harder. In turn we should use more graphic novels to help with our learning, and also it can help us be more openminded!
I think that graphic novels help with learning, the cause us to use our imagination, and when we use our imagination it makes our brain work just a little harder. In turn we should use more graphic novels to help with our learning, and also it can help us be more open minded!
Personally, I agree with both bloggers… I think scholastic reading should not be forced upon us by our teachers/professors– we should actually WANT to read the novel, we should be eager to learn! I feel like this blog was directed towards the “unusually casual” layout used in the novel Maus, when the Holocaust is one of history’s most serious topics. Also, I like how Kyle brought mentioned the aspect of diversity; it makes the classroom setting much more exciting!