Oct 05 2009
Blog 4: Do you think the war caused Vladick to be who his son Art knew? In other words, was it the war that changed Vladick, or was he always like that?
Leader 02-1:
I agree so far with the one comment that is up. I also think that his obsession with saving things that he knew to be useful was a product of the holocaust. he was already resourceful, but when he told his son that he never knew when he would need these resources, that said to me that his grandfather didn’t want his son to die because of his lack of resourcefulness. I mean a bent wire off the street that’s a little overboard for someone who has a home and money. I think these habits came from a war when he needed every tiny thing in the world to get by.
-Mowntainmancody
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71 Responses to “Blog 4: Do you think the war caused Vladick to be who his son Art knew? In other words, was it the war that changed Vladick, or was he always like that?”
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I feel that the War didnt change him as much as it enhanced his existing servival skills. Vladek lerned how to servive and he did bring that mentality with him to America. i do believe that the war shaped Vladeks life and his expiriences may have lead to a poor relationship with his son but it is hrd to tell with out a true before and after.
I somewhat agree and disagree with the first response. Yes, Vladick did learn many survival skills by going through the holocaust, but I think it altered his emotional well being as well. Trials and memories that we go through shape us into what we are today. We can overcome our trials and learn from them, but Vladick learned a little too much from enduring the holocaust. It seemed like Vladick wasn’t able to let go of his past, because he was still saving things like the Nazis were going to capture him again. This was a lesson to me that I need to let go of bad things from the past. Vladick wasn’t really able to let go of what happened to him. The holocaust was a very tragic event though, more tragic then anything I have gone through, which is why it stayed with him throughout the rest of his life.
I do not think it is our place to say whethet the war made Vladick ther person who he was or not. We do not know who he would have been if he had never gone through the holocaust. Of course some of his characteristics may have been enhanced because he went through it, i.e. his need to collect things and his stinginess with saving money. But who knows how else he was affected and how he would have been different if he never would have gone through the holocaust. I think he went through an amazingly difficult trial and it’s incredible how functional and normal he really was.
I believe the war did change Vladick. It seems like he didn’t complain as much before the war or even when the war was going on. Sure he is still the same person but much of him did change. Like he always complains about saving money and before the war he didn’t even care about the money. Now days he keeps all the old stuff around, the war has made him so that he looks for things he believes he can use. Like that old piece of wire he picked up. I think before the war started he wouldn’t have a care in the world to even look at that wire.
I think the war definitely had a huge effect on Vladek. After the war, Vladek was always saving things, even when it wasn’t necessary. The war made him very resourceful and changed his way of doing things. Before the war, he was also very resourceful but i feel the war made Vladek resourceful to a whole new level. Before the war, Vladek was very aware of saving up money but after the war Vladek took this to a new level, where he would even return a half eaten box of cereal to a store. So i definitely think that the war changed Vladek to some extent. He had a hard time letting go of the past, and the ways of living during the war.
I agree with imyogybear it didn’t change him it helped him. It made him stronger, and it gave him another chance at life. After the war he learned to enjoy the little things in life. Sure some things changed like him saving everything but he didn’t change.
I agree with Ashley Heelis and her response to war changing Vladek. I believe the war shaped who he became as a person yet was also something that shaped his life so much, he was unable to let go of the past and its negative effects. The experience from the holocaust caused Vladek to gain too many memories that should have been forgotten from the war.
I have to agree with some that Vladek had a lot of the skills that are him, and that the war allowed Vladek to put those into action for such a long period of time that it changed the way he reacted and acted to all not just to loved ones alone. It is clear that the environment we are placed in, does in fact effect us, but doesn’t always cause large scale changes in who we’re.
I absolutely believe that Vladek was changed by the war. When you live through so much trauma and depression that will take a definite tole on you. I found it interesting in the book how Vladek will not throw anything away. He loves clutter because he feels that one day he will be able to use it to survive. This comes from the fear of the war. Vladek also always is so concerned with the waste of food. He has gotten on Art’s case about that a couple of times in the book which I found interesting because Art was so passive and just did not care about wasting food. All these things I feel became habit because of the way he lived for a good majority of his life in the holocaust.
I think it was the war that changed Vladek. It mentioned how he picked up things off the ground and collected it, well that gives an example how he had to do anything he could to survive whether it was finding something and giving it to the germans or polish people to get something better or what not. Also he always mentioned how the wife always nagged him about money, that he may have gone to far, but again he needed to save everything he had to use it later on otherwise get what something was worth.
I have to agree that everyone has a good point, Vladek changed quite a bit over the war and the holocoust and i believe that it did happen to effect his relationship with his son. Vladek became kind of rude towards his new wife, he was slightly bitter. He lived in many different kind of places. His life changed through the time, he became a different person as time progressed
I think in a way the war did change Vladek. He learned alot of survival techniques during his time in the war. He’s learned to become more resourceful with everything, just like how he won’t even hire anyone to do something because he can do it himself. I believe that the war might have not changed him a lot but it had somewhat of an impact of how he is today.
Well of course the war change him! Everyone is effected by what they see and what he saw was horrible. Reading about the holocaust people are always saying that you just had to look out for number one and i think that is were Vladek got his personality. Vladek learned the value of money and food so he tried really hard not to waste it. I mean after a while a person gets use to all of the hard treatment and will sometimes take on that behavior so maybe that is why Vladek is so rude!!
I pretty much agree with what everybody is saying. How could his experience not affect him for the rest of his life? That kind of thing would scar the human brain forever on the four planes of being. Mentally, emotionally, physically, and spiritually, it shaped Vladek into a different man for the rest of his life.
There is nothing to suggest to Vladek that this holocaust won’t happen again. From this experience, Vladek learned street smarts. He learned selfishness from this horrendous lesson, and it became part of who he was, as depicted in the novel. He kept everything he could to himself, even his money. The result is a product of his conditionings.
I agree with most of the responses so far. I think that it is a little bit of both. I believe that Vladeck had the same personality before the war as he did after but, his personality in some areas grew stronger. This is very common when someone goes through such a tragedy… I think he became so anal about some things that it appears almost as if he is going mad, I think he became even more anal after his wife killed herself. I really like kayohbeewhy’s comment. I think inh Vladeck’s mind there is no evidence that something as life changing as the holocaust won’t happen again and so he just practices the same things he learned during his trying times.
Wow, I think “ashleyheelis” stole the words right out of my mouth! Sure Vladeck did gain many survival skills, but I’m sure the physically and emotionally draining aspects of war and the Holocaust did, in fact, “harden” him a bit. However, I don’t think Vladeck struggled with letting go of the past, as if he wanted to remember the horrible things he endured, but rather to learn from his past, which molded him into the man he became.
I agree with ashley heelis on this one. I think Vladek is too paranoid. I think that him saving stuff and being money conscious can be good, but to a certain extent. I think that Vladek probably had the survival instinct within him initially, but when he went throught the Holocaust, it brought out those instincts, and he hasn’t never really let go of the extreme behaviors he used to survive.
I agree with taylor because i think that it had an affect on him with saving all the things he did, and always being so cautious in what he does. It probably was scary for him and he did it in thinking it may happen again. If it hadn’t happened he probably wouldn’t have saved so much stuff.
I definitely believe it was the was that made him this way. When he was in Auschwitz he had to save every little thing he found so in return maybe he could get something to eat or something else that was more valuable. He mentions that not only a cigarette but it was very hard to find a piece of paper in Auschwitz too. So when he broke the Dish by mistake instead of throwing it away, he decided to glue it together and maybe use it later. Also he picked up a bent wire off the street i mean that’s just stretching it a little too much.
So yah it was the war…
I think that Vladek was partly always the way he was. Even in the story before the war occurred he mentioned how he liked everything neat and orderly. I believe that the war just intensified these traits.
I agree with melanierichter you cannot really judge how the war effected vladeck because the entire image or interpretation of him when he was younger probably isn’t very accurate. Vladeck is telling the story the way he felt he was and so you cannot really know how accurate his attitude is portrayed in the story. We cannot tell if he changed at all. So i don’t think it is a mystery that we will never know the answer to.
I agree with mattbray. It really seems like Vladek already had a lot of OCD-like characteristics. But before the war those behaviors weren’t bad, then the holocaust(a VERY dramatic event) came along and made those behaviors very dramatic and intensified!
I think it’s obvious that him having money throughout his whole holocaust experience saved his and Anja’s lives many times over. This probably stayed with him in his old age, so he became a miserly old man. We have to remember though that his second wife mentioned that he was always like this even before these events. It’s like the nature verses nurture argument. I’m going to say it’s a little bit of both.
I believe that Vladek, and everyone for that matter, had all those characteristics that make him the character we know his whole life. Different situations require different skills and characteristics to survive. Vladek may have seemed like a totally different man after the war, but the truth is he had always been that man, now he was just looking at his life through new experiences and responding accordingly.
I believe that everyone is effected by their life experiences and Vladek is no different. How can he not be changed by the things he witnessed and was a part of. You can choose how you deal with different life events but you leave being changed in some ways!
The war definitley helped shape Vladek into the person he was. I think that Vladek not only did things like pick up wire off the streets because of the war but he did it to try and make Artie realize what he had to go through and what it has done to him. this is just speculation but it seems like this is the only way he could show Artie what kind of an impact the war had on him. I think that Vladek was always like that but the war brought it out of him to where it stuck with him no matter what his situation.
I agree with the above statements in that Vladek was changed by the war. The war made him believe that it could happen again at any time and that he needed to keep everything he could to survive. I think that is a little overboard if you have enough money to get by. You don’t need to steal things just so you don’t need to buy them. I think that the war did change Vladek.
I believe it did change Vladek because everybody who comes back from a war becomes changed no matter how small or large that change may be. Take for example those who serve in our U.S. Army who are stationed at actual war sites. When they come home they are always looking for the danger and sometimes they see things that aren’t really there war has an odd effect on all that are in it.
-Weston Isham
I kind of disagree with the leader, I don’t think that anyone can go through being a prisoner of war, and what they had to go through without being changed. I realize that he had the thoughts of his family to hold onto, but even with that light, it would still change him.
After going through what Vladek has gone through there is no way that the war could not have changed him. He would not be the same person without the experience of being a war prisoner.
I agree with melanierichter whole heartedly, we are not to know what type of person he was to be after the event. There is no point of reference to compare Vladek’s personality before and after the Holocaust. It would be logical to assume that an event of such horrific magnitude would bear a scar on Vladek’s personality, but we do not know. The major factor that seemed to rise from the story was Vladek’s disdain for discarding anything, no matter how useless they may be perceived. While he learned to be more resourceful due to the unavailability of such common objects during the Holocaust, it could be possible he was merely sharpening a tool that he already possessed. I also thought it was interesting in the story where Vladek stereotypes a hitch hiker based on his race. You would think that anyone who was fortunate enough to survive the Holocaust would be socially accepting of any race (except the Germans maybe). But here is Vladek who openly shows his prejudice thoughts. This is something he should not have learned during the Holocaust, especially because Black Americans would have been part of the American army that saved his life and many others, so his views before the event still shine through.
I think that this isnt a yes or no answer. It is so complicated; i mean so many factors went into making Vladic who he was. He did get a little nuts as he got older, but a lot of people who have never been through the holocaust get quirky as they get old. Of course the holocaust had an affect and probally made his end personality more extreme, but he probally already would have ended up a crazy old man.
I agree with Mowntainmancody because he he was resourceful but he did not save everything before. I also agree with imyogybear how the Holocaust more enhanced than changed Vladek’s personality. I think this because to completely change ones personality is very hard but to enhance parts and diminish other parts of your personality is much easier.
I agree with “kelton”, if someone was to go through what Vladek went through, i believe it would be impossible for him not to change. His imprisonment forced hime to learn survival skills he would have never learnt, not being in the situation he was in. It also would have altered his connection to his family and friends as he was forced to forget his family and jkust concentrate on survival for the period of time he was imprisoned.
I think that without a question the war affected Vladek. The thing that we will always wonder is, “To what extent?”. It’s not possible to go through anything and not have it shape a little bit of who we are. What he went through was so dramatic that it’s impossible to say that it didn’t change him. I also agree with blog leader 3; though we know that Vladek must be different after the holocaust, no one can say how much he changed. Maybe he would have been very similar to the way he turned out or maybe he would have been a completely different person. No one really knows.
Well I believe that the war made him go to the extremes of his personality but the war is not the blame for the way he is. He may or may not have acted this way if it had never happened but either way this is how he is now. We can’t really go back into the past and see if suddenly the way he acts changes, it is how it is.
I believe that Valdekprobably had some of his personality before the war but I think the war caused his personality to shift in a negative way. I don’t think a person can go through such a hard thing and not change from it. It would shake any one’s personality up and most likely in a negative way.
I think that the war absolutely changed Vladek. I agree with what a lot of people have said. I don’t think a person could go through something so awful and not come out changed by it at least to some degree. And actually, in this case, I think he was changed quite a bit. Of course he’s going to be bitter and angry. Anyone would be.
yes. i think that every day, every hour, every minute even every second shapes us to be the people we are. had Vladeks life taken a different route and avoided the war, he wouldnt have been shaped and molded the way he was. like the post above stated “i dont think a person could go through something so aweful and not come out changed by it to some degree” i completely agree. even if it was a tiny degree, it could take his life in a whole new direction. when i pilot is off of his navigations by a lousy degree, it takes him miles off course. so even if this just affected him by one degree, his life is totally changed forever.
I believe that he did change and then at the same time didn’t. He was already stubborn before the war and that stubborness just helped him through the war. He was also a hard worker and knew how to get on peoples good sides, which also helped him survive the war. The war did change how he looked at life. He saves everything now and doesn’t like feeling alone. The war took all of his family, even his wife and son. But because of that and just the affect the war took on his mind, his life would never be the same.
How can losing his child, siblings, parents, and all of the loved ones around him not change him? I believe it made him see the world differently. I don’t necessarily think his entire entity of who he is because of the war. It made him see the world in a different way, from the eyes of someone trying to survive. Mala mentioned in the book she went through the same tribulations and came out of it differently from Vladek.
I agree with jensenn. When someone goes through something as horrific as the Holocaust there is no way it didn’t effect who they are. Vladek is always saving things never throwing them away. maybe he is like that cause during the holocaust everything was so valuable and precious you couldn’t throw it away. The holocaust changed him for better or worse who is to say but it was one of the biggest or the biggest thing to happen to him in his life.
I also agree with Mowntainmancody. Vladecks idea of using everything again and again is a side effect of the war. I think i remember reading about how Vladeck would reuse the empty bread bags to hold things. This is probably how Art knows his father, as the kind of person that doesn’t want to waste anything and can take something from a garbage can and put it to good use. If the war and holocaust never happened then I believe that Art would see a whole different Vladeck.
I think that the war did change Vladek. Considering he was fairly wealthy before the war i don’t think that he was quite as conservative as he was after the war. And that is very understandable because he had to be conservative to survive and it’s only natural to keep that feeling of needing to save just in case.
i don’t think that the war changed Vladek but it gave him a whole new perspective on things. for better and for worse. in some ways it may have changed him. like how he likes to save things for later, just in case he wants or needs them later. but in a way that is good. he probably has a food storage (which is always a good thing to have.) but little usless things that won’t get used again and don’t need to be saved, he will save.
I think that the was is what make Vladek how he was. Since times were so hard during the war, he had to learn to save every little thing that might be useful, and he kept doing that throughout his whole life even though he didn’t need to. If the war hadn’t happened, he probably would have never picked up those habbits in the first place.
I believe that the war definitely changed who he is because they always talk about and complain that he is too conservative with his stuff. He won’t throw anything away. Especially when he tries to bring stuff back to the store like a partially eaten box of cereal. He probably wouldn’t be like that if he hadn’t gone through the war.
I think the war has a lot to do with the way he acted, yes. but we for sure don’t know the way he was before the war took place. I believe that the war did change him inside and out. He went through so many things during the Holocaust and many people changed whether it was for the better or worse. Vladek went through emotional roller coasters 24/7, throughout the whole war. The way things changed during this time had a huge impact on everyone. Of course the war had changed who he was, or maybe just his outlook on life.
i agree and disagree with the first comment. i think the war did change vladek ina way that made him more self relient and more conservative. i think he liked to save things before the war. his attitude towards life changed while he was in the consentration camps and everything else that happened to him. he was a great man.
In my opinion, the war has a lot to do with Vladek’s personality. He saves things that have little value and it seems like he always has his guard up. He is always ready to defend himself and fight for his life. Before the war, the book talks about Lucia. Vladek was obviously a carefree person before the Holocaust. After the war, his priorities were set straight. I think the war change Vladek a lot.
I think that the war has a lot to do with how Vladek reacts and who he is today. He still has the mind set that he is in the war, he is always defensive and concerned about how situations will turn out. He is always looking out for himself and likes saving things from the war.
I think that the way that vladek is today has a lot to do with what he went through and the experiences he had in the war. I think it is very difficult to just forget about what had happend to him and i feel that the war had a lot of impact on his life. Its hard to say how much it changed him because were not quite sure how he was before but i think that the war made him have a different outlook on things.
I think that the war caused Vladek to change. I believe that the way he acted helped him survive the war. He may not have survived the war he hadn’t become the way he was. It would be really hard to go back to how his life was before. Breaking all of the habbits from before would be really hard. I doubt he would have been the way he was if he hadn’t been through the war.
I believe the war may have change some perspectives of Vladick, such as his need to save everything he could get his hands on, as well as his survival methods, and the need to do everything for himself. When the Germans started the war they took every Jew’s self worth away, as well as there need to be self sufficient. Therefore in my opinion the war did change him, but it also taught him to save and hold the things that are dearest to him.
I think that Vladek was changed mostly by the war and all of his experiences. When everything was taken away from him it gave him a greater understanding of the fact that he shouldnt waste things because he might not get anymore. When everything was over I dont think that he could get over the fact that things can be taken away.
I agree with mountainmancody. It is our experiences that shape us. Witnessing such a traumatic event would completely change a person’s life. I believe that much of Vladek’s personality came in result of the holocaust.
I think that leader 02-1 is completely correct. I think Vladek is what I would consider a business tycoon with his textile company and as a sellsman you need to be cunning and resourceful to make a living out of both of these industries. I think that he simply used his resourcefulness that he learned before the war in order to sustain himself through the war. I also believe that the love he had for Anna also helped to get him through the war. I guess what I’m trying to say is that the war really did not change Vladek because he was already greatly resourceful before the war, however the war may have helped to enhance the skills he already possessed.
I believe that the war changed Vladek, maybe not as a whole but many aspects of his life. When he is described in Art’s book he seems to act differently back in the war than he did later in life. I think its simply because of all of the things he went through. I know that it would’ve changed me
The war did change how Vladek acts towards his son because he explains in one of the chapters that he can’t throw out food because of Hitler. The leader brought up the piece of wire he finds in the trash and keeps even though he could afford it.
I do not think that anyone could go through something as awful as the holocaust without it having some kind of impact on them. If you had to live as they did in the concentration camps, or see the things they saw, I believe that any of us would also experience a big change. It only takes one event or circumstance like the holocaust, or the depression, or many other things for you to decide you never want to be cold, or hungry, or alone again, so you go to extremes to prevent it. I also think that when you go through something like Vladek did, you are more appreciative of what you have and fight to protect it even more so you do not take anything for granted.
Anybody that was involved in, and survived the holocaust would come out a very very different individual. Vladek is the type of person that wants to save what he needs or could need in case at some point later on he could need it for any reason. Relating back to the blair reading story on dumpster diving; the author would take only what he needed and leave the rest behind to other people, because he could just go back and get it later, or find something else, somewhere else. But in Vladeks case in the holocaust if he had a chance to pick up that little wire, didn’t, and somebody else found it, he might not ever have that chance again. All the random things Vladek did to survive made him realize the more you know, and have to offer people the more chance you have of getting on their good side and making them need YOU as well as you needing them. Every little thing that could come in useful at some point was worth the effort to get, just in case to Vladek. The war definately changed him and made him very cautious and want to be prepared for whatever could happen.
I do agree with the topic that yes, Valdek did become who he is because of what he had to go through in reguards to the war. I also believe that he brought some of who he was before the war with him so it was a mixture of both. In reponce to Ashlieheelis, I agree that the trials and experiences we go through shape who we are today.
Since the reparations in war were so slight, Vladek learned how to save. Throughout the graphic novel, it tells of how he received food items and Red Cross Packages and how he learned to save some for later and not scarf it down at the beginning. The person he is today is no different than the person he was during the war. However, before the war Vladek had no reason to worry. He had a good job and, from my understanding, a quite a bit of money. The reason he didn’t need to save and be as stubborn before the war was that he had what he needed and he didn’t have the health problems he suffered from later in life. Although, to me, most older people are stubborn because they’re already set in their ways and beliefs.
Personally, I think that Vladek has always been different and a little unbarable. I also think that the war did not help the matter at all. Vladek is always saving things he doesn’t really need. I think that that part of him was caused by the war and the Holocaust. in the book it talks about him always saving his food and every little thing he can find becuse he might need it later on if not to trade to use for something else. Even though he seems a little unbarable, it seems like when he was first falling in love with Anja and before the war that he was very loving and not too crazy. But now the war has caused him to come undone.
I do believe that the war did change Vladick because before the war, he never wanted to save everything. He never complained about anything untill after the war. While in the war he had to save every last drop of food for him to survive so he became used to saving everything even though he knows he can buy it again after it is all gone. And before the war, he and Anja were a very loving couple and never argued but when they were together again after the war, he would constantly argue with her.
I agree with Taylor that Vladick did change because he didn’t used to save so many things. He had to adapt and learn how to survive and he was so used to doing it that way. He changed himslef so much that it stuck with him even after the war when it really was not necessary to do that. I don’t know if the war changed him as a person, but it definately changed the way he did some things.
Yes the war changed him. After he came back from the Holocaust he never really spent money, he never threw things away, and he never really showed his emotions towards his family. The war made him stronger and in turn made it so he never let anyone in to his life.
I think that the war is the only thing that could have changed Vladek. I mean how could an event as traumatizing as the Holocaust not change someone. While he and his family were in hiding during the Holocaust their survival basically depended on the amount of money they had. This taught Vladek to save every amount of money that he had just in case his life depended on it. He also stopped sharing his emotions because during the Holocaust it showed weakness and could have cost him his life. Like coltongadd said, the Holocaust made him stronger but it also made him lonely.
I agree with coltongadd when he says that the war changed Vladek. By being in a tight situation, one automatically is tight with money and will save as much as possible. Vladek also didnt show emotion to his family, because the callas of war made him emotionally tough.
Yes i do agree that the war did change Vladick. Who can go through a time as horrible as the holocaust and come out the same way they went in. If I lived in that time, I would have changed. I would become more alert and start saving everything I had just like Vladick did, and I think I would have become more cranky. And plus, what else could have changed Vladick? The only thing that would majorly change someone would be if they lived through a time like the holocaust.
In a way I think Vladick was always the way he was. I think when he came out of the Holocaust he was unable to cope with regular daily life and he was unable to release the trauma he went through in the Holocaust. I think he still lives in fear that somehow somewhere the Holocaust could happen again.